Can anyone tell us what the 7 thunders were since this already took place?

During this period Scripture says the saints are killed by all nations. The survival rate is small. Foxes book of Martyrs does not stop at 70 AD, but this is inconsequential in the Preterist viewpoint. The fact that more Christians were killed after 70 AD, after the first century than were killed before 70 AD does not seem to affect their theological construct of what the end would be like, they do not budge. An we thought the Millennium comes after the Tribulation!

Revelation 9:18: “By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed.” Not a third of Rome or Israel, but all of mankind. Rev. 3:10 speaks of “the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world.” “The whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one (1 John 5:19) and the wicked one “deceives the whole world” Rev. 12:9. world doers not apply exclusively to the Roman empire as Preterists teach.

The Bible says “...no prophecy is of private interpretation” 2 Peter 1:20.

Have we seen an increase in wars worldwide. Then how can we be living in a Millennium that is to have no war. Famines and increases in earthquakes throughout the world in frequency and intensity, environmental catastrophes, numerous diseases causing widespread sicknesses and death. All of these and more have been taking place after 70 AD when we should be in the Millennium if Christ returned and none should be taking place.

Two witnesses are preaching in Jerusalem near the time the antichrist goes into the temple. These are two men the world does not ignore.

Rev. 11:3-13: V.3"And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth."V.5And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire. Now when they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. V.11-13: ‘Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them. In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven thousand men were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven.”

Who were the two prophets? Can we name them? When do we read of their miracles in history? And when did they get raised and taken to heaven? This is a spectacular resurrection of both men at the same time, as the world sees them openly dead in the street and rejoices. When did this earthquake kill 7 thousand people which made others afraid and give God glory in 70 AD? It is not remembered because it NEVER happened. Preterism is a fairy tale of prophecy, like evolution is for the secular world.

There is even a more devastating earthquake during the Tribulation. Revelation 16:18-19: “…there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth. Now the great city (referring to Jerusalem, Rev. 11:8) was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell.”

Can anyone point to when this happened? The most devastating earthquake the world has ever experienced is not recorded for Jerusalem nor did the cities of nations fall, it is still in our future.

The Tribulation is called among the unbelieving world as the great day of his wrath. Once this occurs the world as we know it has changed. Rev. 6:16-17 and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! "For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” (Rev. 15:7; 16:1) The tribulation judgments are the wrath of God on an unbelieving world; they are also to break the will of God’s holy people Israel (Daniel 12:7) for repentance, so they can call upon Him to be saved (Zech. 12:10).

Rev. 15:1: “Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous: seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete.”

Rev. 11:15-18: Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!" And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying: "We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was and who is to come, because You have taken Your great power and reigned. The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, and those who fear Your name, small and great, and should destroy those who destroy the earth."

Did the kingdoms become the Lords, does he rule over them – did He destroy them? Do you think what we are in today is what the Bible describes as the Millennial reign of Christ, pretty disappointing if it is.

(see did Jesus return?)

If so why do we have the same sinful governments with dictators throughout earth today?

Because the kingdoms of the world are NOT being ruled by Jesus yet.

Rev. 19:15: “… He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.”

 Isa. 13:10-12: “For the stars of heaven and their constellations will not give their light; the sun will be darkened in its going forth, and the moon will not cause its light to shine. "I will punish the world for its evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; I will halt the arrogance of the proud, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. I will make a mortal more rare than fine gold, a man more than the golden wedge of Ophir.”

In 70 AD Israel was punished, not Rome , not any other country.

Matt 24:29: "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.” This was prophesied in Joel 2:30-31: “And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: blood and fire and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.”

Joel 2:32 “And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls”

(NIV; NKJV says remnant) The point is that this occurs there are signs in heaven with the Lord returning: they are saved, delivered and gathered, not destroyed or scattered.

Zechariah speaks of "all the peoples" (12:2), "all the nations of the earth will be gathered against it (Jerusalem)" (12:3), and "I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle" (14:2). "How can this be only the Roman army in AD 70." This is a worldwide conflict not a localized one.

“In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem" (12:8) "I will set about to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem" (12:9). Instead, the Lord is defending (12:8) and rescuing (14:3) Israel from those nations. Hardly the same as what Preterists claim as the fulfillment.

When did the Euphrates river dry up?

Zech. 14:3-5: “Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle. And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, from east to west, making a very large valley; half of the mountain shall move toward the north and half of it toward the south. Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, for the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the LORD my God will come, and all the saints with You.”

Did the mountain split? Did all the saints in heaven arrive? Then it didn’t happen.

This battle takes place when Jesus returns in glory, God is going to “defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem” (Zechariah 12:8). This did not happen in A.D. 70, it is yet future. God said He would “destroy ALL the nations” that would “come against Jerusalem,” (Zechariah 12:9,). Zech. 12:10: "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they have pierced; they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.” This is what it means that His Spirit is poured out on all flesh (Joel 2:28-32)

Why does it say, He will pour out a spirit of prayer on his people in Zech. 12; Joel 2-3, it is the same time Israel as a nation calls upon the Lord to be saved. It never happened.

"I will also gather all nations, and bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat; and I will enter into judgment with them there on account of My people, My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations; they have also divided up My land" (Joel 3:1-2).

Why is God concerned with their land if they forfeited it and the Israel of our day has nothing to do with Bible prophecy? (I ask this of all that hold to replacement teaching, amillenialists also).

II Thess. 1:7-10 “and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.”

Judgment is from the Lord who is present not Roman pagan armies. II Thess. 2:8 “And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.”

Ps. 21:8-9: ‘Your hand will find all Your enemies; your right hand ( a metaphor for the Messiah) will find those who hate You. You shall make them as a fiery oven in the time of Your anger; the LORD shall swallow them up in His wrath, and the fire shall devour them.”

The one who exalted himself will personally be dealt with, he “shall prosper till the wrath has been accomplished; for what has been determined shall be done” (Dan. 11:36).

We see that no prophecy written of what we consider to be still future events means what it says to those who hold a preterist viewpoint, they change its application.

This Day is one of victory for Jerusalem (Zech. 12:4–6) not a day of vengeance on Jerusalem. The Messiah comes in power and glory in battle (14:4–5). Isa.63:1 they ask who is this? Jesus going to Israel from Bozrah vs.2-6 he just trampled the enemy and rescued Israel Joel 3:12-13; Zech.14:4-5. The battle ends in the valley of Jehosophat Zech.14:4-5

Rev. 16:14-15 “For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. “

70 AD was not Armageddon.

Rev. 19:11-15: “Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.”

Jesus fights the armies by himself and the saints come from heaven with him. Rev. 19:21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

Here we have the saints returning with him as this great battle of the nations versus Christ ensues. After he conquers them all, he sets things in order and he rules with a rod of Iron through the Millennium because he has established his kingdom in Israel. Can anyone point out when this took place?

Zechariah says in chapter 14, that, "in that day His feet shall stand upon the Mount of Olives." What day? The day he comes back to rescue (not destroy) Israel.

Luke 21:27-28: “Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. "Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."

How is judgment on a city and destruction of the temple with many being killed and taken captive redemption?

Mark 14:57-58 Then some rose up and bore false witness against Him, saying, "We heard Him say, 'I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.'"

Preterists are just as wrong when they say the second coming of Jesus was when the temple was destroyed through the Roman army; false eschatology.

Jesus prophesied of Israels condition before He left. Matt. 23:38-39 "See! Your house is left to you desolate; "for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!'" (Luke 13:35)

John 12:13-15 they took branches of palm trees and went out to meet Him, and cried out: "Hosanna! 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!' The King of Israel!"Then Jesus, when He had found a young donkey, sat on it; as it is written:"Fear not, daughter of Zion; behold, your King is coming, sitting on a donkey's colt."

Fulfilling Scripture literally, He came the first time as they recited Psalm 118:26-27. But when they say this again he comes on a white horse with all the saints (Rev.19:11-18) to save Israel and judge the nations. Again 70 AD does not match the Bibles description of his coming. Heb 9:28: “He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.” Not for destruction of Israel but for their salvation - they have called upon him to be saved.

Matthew 13:39-42 “Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire.”

Did this happen? In one judgment he removes all that is evil and only those who are believers are now living on earth.

According to Daniel the ‘latter’ generation would experience a huge increase in knowledge and travel but this did not happen in the first century but only in the last 200 or so years. We have advanced from horse-drawn carriages to cars to space flight.

It was prophesied by Jesus Christ (and by Daniel almost five hundred years before him), that the Jews would be driven out of Palestine and Jerusalem would be trodden down. The Bible prophesied that the Jews would be scattered over the face of the earth, that they would be despised, persecuted and hated above all nations. Did this not come true? God also prophesied that in the latter days, He would bring them back to Israel and establish the Jewish Nation once again. God said He would do this as a sign to other nations. History determines the truth of these statements. In 1948, after great peresecution Israel was recognised as a State for the first time in almost nineteen hundred years. 2,440 years after the prophet Daniel said they would return.

Many throughout history said the Jews would return to Israel and reestablish their nation. There were a few Jews that lived in the land since their dispersion: until it became their country again. Today, there are over six million Jews in Israel as they continue to return from the four corners of the earth they were scattered to, just as God prophesied they would return (Isaiah 11: 11-12; Ezek. 37). If the scattering of Israel was literal, why should we not believe that the regathering will be literal? Ezekiel predicts the building of the new Temple with different dimensions. In the final division of the land, it is separated among the twelve tribes. The Jewish people are going to have a land extending from the Nile to the Euphrates. The land that God promised to them which they have not yet to possess. So it is perfectly clear that promise has never yet been fulfilled.

Prophecy of Israel is fulfilled in a literal way, not allegorical, the same people, the same land etc. Israel will return to the land in unbelief and in stages, this is in the process of being fulfilled in front of our very eyes.

When dealing with prophecy we should not be swift to pronounce a fulfillment unless it is completed with the details it was written in. The prophecies of Christ's first coming was fulfilled literally, precisely, exactly as it is written in the Book.

Luke 24: 44 states, "All things must be fulfilled which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets and in the psalms concerning Me." This is a declaration by Jesus that the Scriptures are to be interpreted literally, except when it the obvious is made, such as a parable or illustration. But even the symbols are of literal events and people.

In Zechariah. 9: 9: "Thy King cometh unto thee; He is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt, the foal of an ass." Was this literally fulfilled? Of course; Matt. 21: 49 tells us so.

If these are not literal then one can use the allegorical approach (as others have to their detriment) in Genesis. There was no literal Adam and Eve, no literal 2 trees and no literal devil etc. This can be applied to all the bibles historical events which would make them unrecognizable.

When symbolism is used in Bible prophecy it is fulfilled literally, not allegorically. Prophetic symbols are used for real future literal events. Sometimes it is the near future other times it is in the far future. Ex: the seed of the woman - a literal Jesus was born to a literal virgin in the actual town of Bethlehem. He literally died and paid for the sins of humanity with literal Blood – exactly as prophesied. If not, then nothing means what it says in the Scripture. How long was the wait for the prophecy to be fulfilled? Thousands of years. The first coming prophecies were fulfilled literally, not allegorically; the second coming scriptures must be fulfilled the same way.

The millennium is necessary to have the literal completion of Old Testament prophecies. These promises that relate to the birth, history and ultimate lot of the nation of Israel, are impossible to fulfill without them being literal.

These prophecies have never yet been completed.

Daniel 7:23: “Thus he said: ‘The fourth beast shall be a fourth kingdom on earth, which shall be different from all other kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, trample it and break it in pieces.”

The whole earth, not just Rome, or its provinces. Does God know what He describes to us or do we need to reinterpret his words to force its meaning to be fulfilled? Did this happen in 70 AD?

Rev. 19 15 “Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Jesus comes back with his robe stained with blood as all the nations gather against Jerusalem- of course to the Preterist this is not literal and has already happened!

Rev 19:19-21: “And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.”

I would think if this were our history we would know it. But only the preterists think so, but they cannot point to the event taking place as it was written.

The coming of the Son of Man and establishment of His kingdom interpreted as the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD is not even worthy of its ink written on the paper, it is Pure fantasy. What is more of a concern is that Preterism stops the saint from watching and anticipating his coming because they have assumed he already came.

These are but a few of the major examples, hundreds of others can be cited. But if one does not see these as contradictions then any other points made would be moot.

Can anyone tell us what the 7 thunders were since this already took place?

During this period Scripture says the saints are killed by all nations. The survival rate is small. Foxes book of Martyrs does not stop at 70 AD, but this is inconsequential in the Preterist viewpoint. The fact that more Christians were killed after 70 AD, after the first century than were killed before 70 AD does not seem to affect their theological construct of what the end would be like, they do not budge. An we thought the Millennium comes after the Tribulation!

Revelation 9:18: “By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed.” Not a third of Rome or Israel, but all of mankind. Rev. 3:10 speaks of “the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world.” “The whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one (1 John 5:19) and the wicked one “deceives the whole world” Rev. 12:9. world doers not apply exclusively to the Roman empire as Preterists teach.

The Bible says “...no prophecy is of private interpretation” 2 Peter 1:20.

Have we seen an increase in wars worldwide. Then how can we be living in a millenium that is to have no war. Famines and increases in earthquakes throughout the world in frequency and intensity, environmental catastrophes, numerous diseases causing widespread sicknesses and death. All of these and more have been taking place after 70 AD when we should be in the Millennium if Christ returned and none should be taking place.

Two witnesses are preaching in Jerusalem near the time the antichrist goes into the temple. These are two men the world does not ignore.

Rev. 11:3-13: V.3"And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth."V.5And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire. Now when they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. V.11-13: ‘Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them. In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven thousand men were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven.”

Who were the two prophets? Can we name them? When do we read of their miracles in history? And when did they get raised and taken to heaven? This is a spectacular resurrection of both men at the same time, as the world sees them openly dead in the street and rejoices. When did this earthquake kill 7 thousand people which made others afraid and give God glory in 70 AD? It is not remembered because it NEVER happened. Preterism is a fairy tale of prophecy, like evolution is for the secular world.

There is even a more devastating earthquake during the Tribulation. Revelation 16:18-19: “…there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth. Now the great city (referring to Jerusalem, Rev. 11:8) was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell.”

Can anyone point to when this happened? The most devastating earthquake the world has ever experienced is not recorded for Jerusalem nor did the cities of nations fall, it is still in our future.

The Tribulation is called among the unbelieving world as the great day of his wrath. Once this occurs the world as we know it has changed. Rev. 6:16-17 and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! "For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” (Rev. 15:7; 16:1) The tribulation judgments are the wrath of God on an unbelieving world; they are also to break the will of God’s holy people Israel (Daniel 12:7) for repentance, so they can call upon Him to be saved (Zech. 12:10).

Rev. 15:1: “Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous: seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete.”

Rev. 11:15-18: Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!" And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying: "We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was and who is to come, because You have taken Your great power and reigned. The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, and those who fear Your name, small and great, and should destroy those who destroy the earth."

Did the kingdoms become the Lords, does he rule over them – did Hee destroy them? Do you think what we are in today is what the Bible describes as the Millennial reign of Christ, pretty disappointing if it is.

(see did Jesus return?)

If so why do we have the same sinful governments with dictators throughout earth today?

Because the kingdoms of the world are NOT being ruled by Jesus yet.

Rev. 19:15: “… He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.”

Isa. 13:10-12 “For the stars of heaven and their constellations will not give their light; the sun will be darkened in its going forth, and the moon will not cause its light to shine. "I will punish the world for its evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; I will halt the arrogance of the proud, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. I will make a mortal more rare than fine gold, a man more than the golden wedge of Ophir.”

In 70 AD Israel was punished, not Rome , not any other country.

Matt 24:29: "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.” This was prophesied in Joel 2:30-31: “And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: blood and fire and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.”

Joel 2:32 “And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls”

(NIV; NKJV says remnant) The point is that this occurs there are signs in heaven with the Lord returning: they are saved, delivered and gathered, not destroyed or scattered.

Zechariah speaks of "all the peoples" (12:2), "all the nations of the earth will be gathered against it (Jerusalem)" (12:3), and "I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle" (14:2). "How can this be only the Roman army in AD 70." This is a worldwide conflict not a localized one.

“In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem" (12:8) "I will set about to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem" (12:9). Instead, the Lord is defending (12:8) and rescuing (14:3) Israel from those nations. Hardly the same as what Preterists claim as the fulfillment.

When did the Euphrates river dry up?

Zech. 14:3-5: “Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle. And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, from east to west, making a very large valley; half of the mountain shall move toward the north and half of it toward the south. Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, for the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the LORD my God will come, and all the saints with You.”

Did the mountain split? Did all the saints in heaven arrive? Then it didn’t happen.

This battle takes place when Jesus returns in glory, God is going to “defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem” (Zechariah 12:8). This did not happen in A.D. 70, it is yet future. God said He would “destroy ALL the nations” that would “come against Jerusalem,” (Zechariah 12:9,). Zech. 12:10: "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they have pierced; they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.” This is what it means that His Spirit is poured out on all flesh (Joel 2:28-32)

Why does it say, He will pour out a spirit of prayer on his people in Zech. 12; Joel 2-3, it is the same time Israel as a nation calls upon the Lord to be saved. It never happened.

"I will also gather all nations, and bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat; and I will enter into judgment with them there on account of My people, My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations; they have also divided up My land" (Joel 3:1-2).

Why is God concerned with their land if they forfeited it and the Israel of our day has nothing to do with Bible prophecy? (I ask this of all that hold to replacement teaching, amillenialists also).

II Thess. 1:7-10 “and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.”

Judgment is from the Lord who is present not Roman pagan armies. II Thess. 2:8 “And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.”

Ps. 21:8-9: ‘Your hand will find all Your enemies; your right hand ( a metaphor for the Messiah) will find those who hate You. You shall make them as a fiery oven in the time of Your anger; the LORD shall swallow them up in His wrath, and the fire shall devour them.”

The one who exalted himself will personally be dealt with, he “shall prosper till the wrath has been accomplished; for what has been determined shall be done” (Dan. 11:36).

We see that no prophecy written of what we consider to be still future events means what it says to those who hold a preterist viewpoint, they change its application.

This Day is one of victory for Jerusalem (Zech. 12:4–6) not a day of vengeance on Jerusalem. The Messiah comes in power and glory in battle (14:4–5). Isa.63:1 they ask who is this? Jesus going to Israel from Bozrah vs.2-6 he just trampled the enemy and rescued Israel Joel 3:12-13; Zech.14:4-5. The battle ends in the valley of Jehosophat Zech.14:4-5

Rev. 16:14-15 “For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. “

70 AD was not Armageddon.

Rev. 19:11-15: “Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.”

Jesus fights the armies by himself and the saints come from heaven with him. Rev. 19:21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

Here we have the saints returning with him as this great battle of the nations versus Christ ensues. After he conquers them all, he sets things in order and he rules with a rod of Iron through the Millennium because he has established his kingdom in Israel. Can anyone point out when this took place?

Zechariah says in chapter 14, that, "in that day His feet shall stand upon the Mount of Olives." What day? The day he comes back to rescue (not destroy) Israel.

Luke 21:27-28: “Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. "Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."

How is judgment on a city and destruction of the temple with many being killed and taken captive redemption?

Mark 14:57-58 Then some rose up and bore false witness against Him, saying, "We heard Him say, 'I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.'"

Preterists are just as wrong when they say the second coming of Jesus was when the temple was destroyed through the Roman army; false eschatology.

Jesus prophesied of Israels condition before He left. Matt. 23:38-39 "See! Your house is left to you desolate; "for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!'" (Luke 13:35)

John 12:13-15 they took branches of palm trees and went out to meet Him, and cried out: "Hosanna! 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!' The King of Israel!"Then Jesus, when He had found a young donkey, sat on it; as it is written:"Fear not, daughter of Zion; behold, your King is coming, sitting on a donkey's colt."

Fulfilling Scripture literally, He came the first time as they recited Psalm 118:26-27. But when they say this again he comes on a white horse with all the saints (Rev.19:11-18) to save Israel and judge the nations. Again 70 AD does not match the Bibles description of his coming. Heb 9:28: “He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.” Not for destruction of Israel but for their salvation - they have called upon him to be saved.

Matthew 13:39-42 “Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire.”

Did this happen? In one judgment he removes all that is evil and only those who are believers are now living on earth.

According to Daniel the ‘latter’ generation would experience a huge increase in knowledge and travel but this did not happen in the first century but only in the last 200 or so years. We have advanced from horse-drawn carriages to cars to space flight.

It was prophesied by Jesus Christ (and by Daniel almost five hundred years before him), that the Jews would be driven out of Palestine and Jerusalem would be trodden down. The Bible prophesied that the Jews would be scattered over the face of the earth, that they would be despised, persecuted and hated above all nations. Did this not come true? God also prophesied that in the latter days, He would bring them back to Israel and establish the Jewish Nation once again. God said He would do this as a sign to other nations. History determines the truth of these statements. In 1948, after great peresecution Israel was recognised as a State for the first time in almost nineteen hundred years. 2,440 years after the prophet Daniel said they would return.

Many throughout history said the Jews would return to Israel and reestablish their nation. There were a few Jews that lived in the land since their dispersion: until it became their country again. Today, there are over six million Jews in Israel as they continue to return from the four corners of the earth they were scattered to, just as God prophesied they would return (Isaiah 11: 11-12; Ezek. 37). If the scattering of Israel was literal, why should we not believe that the regathering will be literal? Ezekiel predicts the building of the new Temple with different dimensions. In the final division of the land, it is separated among the twelve tribes. The Jewish people are going to have a land extending from the Nile to the Euphrates. The land that God promised to them which they have not yet to possess. So it is perfectly clear that promise has never yet been fulfilled.

Prophecy of Israel is fulfilled in a literal way, not allegorical, the same people, the same land etc. Israel will return to the land in unbelief and in stages, this is in the process of being fulfilled in front of our very eyes.

When dealing with prophecy we should not be swift to pronounce a fulfillment unless it is completed with the details it was written in. The prophecies of Christ's first coming was fulfilled literally, precisely, exactly as it is written in the Book.

Luke 24: 44 states, "All things must be fulfilled which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets and in the psalms concerning Me." This is a declaration by Jesus that the Scriptures are to be interpreted literally, except when it the obvious is made, such as a parable or illustration. But even the symbols are of literal events and people.

In Zechariah. 9: 9: "Thy King cometh unto thee; He is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt, the foal of an ass." Was this literally fulfilled? Of course; Matt. 21: 49 tells us so.

If these are not literal then one can use the allegorical approach (as others have to their detriment) in Genesis. There was no literal Adam and Eve, no literal 2 trees and no literal devil etc. This can be applied to all the bibles historical events which would make them unrecognizable.

When symbolism is used in Bible prophecy it is fulfilled literally, not allegorically. Prophetic symbols are used for real future literal events. Sometimes it is the near future other times it is in the far future. Ex: the seed of the woman - a literal Jesus was born to a literal virgin in the actual town of Bethlehem. He literally died and paid for the sins of humanity with literal Blood – exactly as prophesied. If not, then nothing means what it says in the Scripture. How long was the wait for the prophecy to be fulfilled? Thousands of years. The first coming prophecies were fulfilled literally, not allegorically; the second coming scriptures must be fulfilled the same way.

The millennium is necessary to have the literal completion of Old Testament prophecies. These promises that relate to the birth, history and ultimate lot of the nation of Israel, are impossible to fulfill without them being literal.

These prophecies have never yet been completed.

Daniel 7:23: “Thus he said: ‘The fourth beast shall be a fourth kingdom on earth, which shall be different from all other kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, trample it and break it in pieces.”

The whole earth, not just Rome, or its provinces. Does God know what He describes to us or do we need to reinterpret his words to force its meaning to be fulfilled? Did this happen in 70 AD?

Rev. 19 15 “Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Jesus comes back with his robe stained with blood as all the nations gather against Jerusalem- of course to the Preterist this is not literal and has already happened!

Rev 19:19-21: “And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.”

I would think if this were our history we would know it. But only the preterists think so, but they cannot point to the event taking place as it was written.

The coming of the Son of Man and establishment of His kingdom interpreted as the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD is not even worthy of its ink written on the paper, it is Pure fantasy. What is more of a concern is that Preterism stops the saint from watching and anticipating his coming because they have assumed he already came.

These are but a few of the major examples, hundreds of others can be cited. But if one does not see these as contradictions then any other points made would be moot.

In our time we have witnessed the rebirth of Israel in 1948. For the Tribulation to occur there needs to be a regathering of Jews into the same land they were given by God, there needs to be a temple in the land (they have built over half of the 105 the elements for its functioning), a struggle with enemies for a peace treaty to be signed (they have Arab/ Muslim enemies, even ancient Persia wants to destroy them), a growing animosity toward their nation so that all nations will come against Israel; exactly what we see being implemented today. One cannot erase or explain these away without denying our present reality and current history.