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p.4 The Vineyard's apostolic /prophetic trial run before Peter Wagner’s reformation in 2,000 AD.

Before Wagner formed his apostolic movement Mike Bickle taught, "There's Apostles, there's Imminent Apostles and there's MOST IMMINENT APOSTLES... There's various levels of Apostles and the Lord was showing that.... out of This Movement there would be 35 apostles ... that will be of the highest level of apostolic ministry. . . the whole government of this movement in it's highest level in all places it goes.” ( Mike Bickle, Visions & Revelations, Kansas City Fellowship Audio Cassette)

So this was C. P.Wagner’s NAR in infancy. Paul Cain and Bob Jones were both Latter Rain promoters (like Branham). The prophesies they uttered were for a new prophetic apostolic foundation they introduced through the Vineyard.

Both Bickle and Jones tell the story of an angel revealing that God would appear to Bickle in the form of another person named "Don" in a vision or in a dream. Bickle said the vision eventually took place, and part of its message was to show him that " Jesus appears in thousands of different faces to portray something," Bickle said. "He was trying to say, 'I'm your friend, I am your familiar friend and I'm going to show you all things so you can move in the power of the Spirit'". (Mike Bickle with Bob Jones, Visions and Revelations, transcript, series of five tapes from the fall of 1988, p.53-60)

Guided by new revelation through visions they brought this into the Vineyard. Familiar may be the key word, as a familiar spirit would act like this. His Jesus is ever changing, or maybe a better way is to say it, he disguises himself. This also fits well with the New Age movements Jesus who is constantly changing manifesting by various light bearers.

Wimber's remodel of his church came from these men who were involved in the Latter Rain, same as Lonnie Frisbee. Each step in Wimber’s journey to pursue power was a step away from the actual scriptures and a correct interpretation of them.

These new "Latter Rain" prophets from the "Vineyard Ministries International" visited England. They brought a "prophetic" message of God is raising an ARMY in these last days to execute judgment and dominion throughout the earth. For the time is at hand for God to pour out His Spirit (just as Frisbee taught; the Latter Rain) that it would be the fulfillment of Joel 2:28, as the beginning of the great and "new thing" God is doing on the earth. As Frisbee shared with Kathryn Kuhlman on the prophet Joel, God would pour out his Spirit upon all flesh and that his sons and daughters would prophesy, and that his servants and handmaidens would speak forth the anointed word of God (which last part is not what it says in the Scripture)

Vineyard’s Jack Deere described Joel 2 When this army comes, “it’s large and it’s mighty. It’s so mighty that there’s never been anything like it before…‘begin the slaughter and begin it in the temple and begin it with the elders, the leaders of my people.’ And they walk through the land and they start and they begin to slaughter and you know it’s already started with the biggest names in His household?He has already started the slaughter…and it is coming now among the Church .” (It Sounds Like the Mother of All Battles, Jack Deere, VMI, Joel’s Army, 1990, “Joel’s Army”)

Vineyard Ministries held conferences overseas and throughout the U.S.A. claiming that it is ordained to bring forth this army

Wimber stated what is coming is the judgment of all mankind the greatest revival the church has ever known; (2) the greatest baptism of the Spirit the Church has ever experienced; (3) the greatest Army (Joel's Army) distinguished by invincibility, immortality and divinity; (4) the greatest purging (inquisition) in the history of the Church; (5) the greatest ministry - the Prize of all Ages; and (6) the greatest miracles, supernatural signs and wonders far exceeding that of the Apostles and Prophets of old .

The only thing that got slaughtered in their church was speaking the scripture accurately and understanding doctrine accurately. This was Branham’s manifest sons of God doctrine through Paul Cain the head prophet.

This transformed Vineyard churches then became the leading proponent of what came to be known as the “Signs and Wonders movement,” that was really just plain Latter Rain teachings.

Bill Johnson was later influenced by John Wimber, he attributes him to shaping his teaching. He adopted Wimber’s model that was developed by the integration of the Latter Rain prophets into his Vineyard church, some who are now of the NAR and working alongside Johnson today.

Wimber said with the judgment of all mankind will come this incredible incarnational enduement of God's Spirit and we will see the Elijahs.... This End time Army will be made of the Elijah’s of the Lord God ” (John Wimber, Docklands England, October, 1990)

Johnson says of himself and associates: "We will carry the Elijah anointing in preparing for the return of the Lord in the same way that John the Baptist carried the Elijah anointing and prepared the people for the coming of the Lord ."

This brings us right back to Lonnie Frisbee and his John the Baptist vision in the canyon carrying the so called anointing into the Vineyard.

Don't speak a word against signs and wonders and the prophetic ministry in these last days or God's zeal will chasten you! (Paul Cain, “The Prophet Christ For the Nations (Dallas: Christ For The Nations, September 1989), p. 5) In other words don't test a thing, accept the power displays as from God or you will be punished by them.

Basically the same message that Francis Chan warned on speaking again his prophetic friends, using the example of Ananias and Saphira on Christians who are trying to test the truth from error, which we are commanded to do. This is how one knowps one has become part of Latter Rain movement which proclaims not to judge the anointed ones.

Along with Elijah’s, included many Paul’s, many Moses', many David’s and anyone else’s name that did great things in the Bible was added to the mix. It confirmed the Latter Rain concepts of the New Breed", "Manifest Sons", "Elijah Company", "Son of Man Company, along with war in their vocabulary and spiritual practices.

John Wimber’s view of Joel's Army' would be Endowed with supernatural power, who will overcome all opposition and subdue the nations. Which is now known as 'dominion theology.' The government of the nations will be upon their shoulders and when all the secular authorities, governments, princes and kings have finally submitted to them, Christ will return and they will present the kingdom to him." (PROPHECY TODAY, Volume 7, Number I, England).

Similar to the 7 mountains concept from the founder of YWAM, Loren Cunningham.

The transformation of the Church was taking place by their ‘rhema’ prophecies. This is not to discount that some of the leaders and members in the Vineyard churches were born-again Christians who love the Lord, but too many had unintentionally fallen into deception by the constant hearing of the latter Rain heresy that resulted in an apostasy and a new type of Christianity that prophets spoke of.

“... God has invited us to have a role in establishing this New Order of Christianity ... (Vineyard Prophecy School 1989, cited in Beware of the new prophets, p. 32 by Bill Randles).

Jack Deere who was once an educated theologian proclaimed the “prophets” are now on the scene:

“You see, that really is how He's going to end the last day ministry. You see why we're excited about someone like Paul Cain or Bob Jones coming on the scene? Or others that we've met? We're excited because that's how He's going to end. It's a signal that the Last Days are very close at hand and this is New Testament also. Revelation 11:3 – you know those two powerful witnesses in Revelation? You know what they are, first and foremost? They are prophets. He said they will prophesy for 1,260 days. He's going to end the last days just before His Son returns with a prophetic movement that will sweep the entire face of the earth and will eclipse anything we have ever seen before… the significance of these signs and wonders. …they don't just happen on the earth. They come because they are prayed for and they are predicted by God's people. “(Jack Deere Joel’s Army,” Vineyard Ministry International, audio cassette, 1990 JOEL’S ARMY)

The actual gospel was second place to these signs and wonders.

Wimber’s “power evangelism," meant the proclamation of the Gospel with the demonstration of supernatural power through the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Along with other miracles to reinforce the Gospel as true. Without which, the Gospel is largely ineffective without these signs and wonders. Which made the Gospel not the power of God unto salvation but the physical effect of the spirit'

When Deere was asked questions on the gospel it showed he had the paradigm shift along with Wimber.

Asked “I wonder if you might tell me why you felt my explanation of the gospel was defective yesterday? '" [Jesus Christ who died for our sins and was buried and raised on the third day and that it is this gospel by which we are saved.] He replied, "I'm not really very prepared to talk about that."

Who then asked, "Well just off the top of your head, what do [you] think the gospel is ?" Jack Deere replied, I'm not prepared to make a formal statement about that"... Next question was, " Could you perhaps tell me in formally what you believe to be the gospel?" Jack Deere answered, "I'm not sure."

Interviewer stunned said, "I find that quite surprising - that you are not sure what the gospel is." Jack Deere then commented, " I used to be just like you.... Thinking the gospel was simply justification by faith."

Interviewer responded, " Are you saying that the gospel is more than justification by faith ?" "Yes," he said. "What would you add to it?" was asked. "Deliverance," he said. (I would agree that we are set free from the demonic) He was then asked, "What do you mean by Deliverance?" He explained, "Things like demons and healing and... .,' (I disagree with the healing, otherwise all would healed, made perfectly whole of everything when they are saved. The same faith that saved them would heal them if it is package deal)

Interviewer then said, "So let me get this straight. You would add as an essential part of the gospel things like the exorcising of demons and healing ?" He nodded. Interviewer: " Sort of like what John Wimber was saying last night at the evangelistic rally that it's the 'complete package' -the word and the works of Jesus ." Yes," he said.

Then asked "But you're not sure exactly what should be included?' "No, "not yet." "Interviewer than asked, " Would it be fair to say that you're in a state of flux since you joined the Wimber thing ?" He quickly responded, " We're always in a state of flux - you are...."

Interviewer; "But on the gospel message?" " surely that's one thing we should have worked out. I can understand being in state of flux over something like remarriage and divorce but surely not over the gospel! Don't you think we can reduce The gospel to some sort of summary statement like Paul does in say l Corinthians 1 and 2 or I Corinthians 15 or I Thessalonians 4 or Romans 5 or .. There was no response except a shrug of the shoulders from Deere.

Interviewer continued, "Do you think the apostle Paul had anything particular in mind when he wrote to Timothy and asked him to guard the gospel that had been entrusted to him ?" Interviewer, " Are you saying that you couldn't go back into that pavilion and tell those people the gospel? "

He replied, "No - not yet. " Interviewer, "When do you think you could do it? Deere, "maybe five years; maybe ten.." (published in the Nov.1990 Sword and Trowel magazine by Metropolitan Tabernacle of London)

So we see Deere was on a journey like those under Wimber to change the very thing we are to stand in for salvation, the gospel (1 Cor.15:1-4).

John Wimber, "God is in the process of offending our minds to reveal our hearts!” From Beware of the new prophets by Bill Randles)

According to the Scripture the heart and mind are a unit, they represent our spirit.

Jack Deere spoke at Toronto Vineyard what became a motto in the church "God is in the process of offending our minds in order to reveal our hearts. And I don't know any place where it's going to be 100% right. There's going to be stumbling blocks in every ministry that the Holy Spirit is really responsible for." (Jack Deere, TACF, 11/20/94, audiotape)

This will later be expanded as new manifestations occur.

All that we see taking place in the Vineyard was then carried by Peter Wagner after Wimber died, when he fully announced on CBN to Pat Robertson, “I believe that the government of the church is finally coming into place and that is the, the scripture teaches in Eph. 2 that the foundation of the church is apostles and prophets” (CBN interview Jan. 3, 2000).

This new government of the apostles and prophets taught in Wimber's church (then changed  to be called the NAR) was carried over by Wagner from his association with Wimber.

After more appointed prophets and apostles took place, Wagner said,“The second apostolic age began in the year 2001 but nothing has happened because the government of the church has not come into place ” (C. Peter Wagner Arise Prophetic Conference Gateway Church San Jose, CA 10/10/2004) (underline mine)

And like Wimber, Wagner’s philosophy was pragmatic “. .. we ought to see clearly that the end DOES justify the means. What else possible could justify the means? If the method I am using accomplishes the goal I am aiming at, it is for that reason a good method. If, on the other hand, my method is not accomplishing the goal, how can I be justified in continuing to use it? ” (C. Peter Wagner, “Your Church Can Grow - Seven Vital Signs Of A Healthy Church”, 1976, p.137 - emphasis in original)

This is traced back to Wimber’s experimentation with his many spiritual methodologies, which all came from Frisbees introduction to the Spirit in 1980.

Symbolism over literalism

Latter Rain interpretations of the bible are often symbolic, allegorical. A message on JOEL'S ARMY was delivered at a Vineyard conference in Anaheim, California by Jack Deere their in house theologian, illustrating how spiritualizing meanings replaced the literal meaning of Scripture:

". . . And here's what I think that the sun and the moon mean on a symbolic level. I think this is a horrible thing He's talking about in verse 31 when He says The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood. . . . because in the Old Testament, the sun frequently stands for the Lord or for the Son, S-O-N. See, it's a perfect symbol for Him, because it brings light to the whole world and it has light of its own that radiates out from its being. . . . it's a more powerful source of light than anything in the world. The sun frequently stands for the Lord Himself and what I think He's saying here is that the Lord Himself will cover Himself with darkness during this time. Psalm 18:11 says that It says that the Lord can and at times will hide Himself with darkness. … the Lord is saying is that there's coming a time during the last day ministry when the Son of God will hide Himself from the earth and especially from the rebellious. So there'll be a time when the rebellious will call out and they'll want to come to the Lord, but they won't see Him. They won't be able to come to Him." (Jack Deere--Vineyard Ministry international Audio Cassette 1990)

In the same manner The DAY OF THE LORD was interpreted by the "new prophets" to mean that Christ will come to His Church and INCARNATE [God in flesh, manifest sons of god doctrine as Branham taught], a supernatural empowered ARMY of believers will be given powers to execute judgment on the Church. THE DAY OF THE LORD is also construed to mean judgment time starting at the Church to be purified. The key text quoted is I Peter 4:17: "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the House of God."

Various prophets like Elijah, not exclusive to only Joel, each will have a different facet to contribute as they will all be gifted as the manifest sons of God.

Wimber believed we are in the kingdom NOW, that we should manifest the same power that Christ had while on earth. Wimber would say, " I want to do the stuff Jesus did." This is why signs and wonders were emphasized, i.e. "Doin' the Stuff". This is what Bill Johnson of Bethel, picked up from the Vineyard and uses today.

Instead of humility which is seen by Gods true servants, elitism and  belligerence were seen by their some of their statements:

"The dismantling of organizations and disbanding of some works will be a positive and exhilarating experience for the Lord's faithful servants a great company of prophets, teachers, pastors and apostles will be raised up with the spirit of Phineas .... " (THE HARVEST, Rick Joyner)

These new apostles and prophet were seen as a permanent place in the Vineyard Church, but the worst was yet to come; very shortly as this unfolding the New Order of Christianity sped up.

p.5 Then came Laughter and so much more


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